This transcript is auto-generated and may contain spelling and grammatical errors.
Tyler Jorgenson (00:01.902)
Welcome out to Biz Ninja Entrepreneur Radio. I am your host, Tyler Jorgensen. And today we get to talk to a former hockey player, Jim Sleeper, beverage founder. We’re going to talk to Jack McNamara about why and how he created True, their performance beverage company. We’re going to go through the ups and downs and the sideways even a little bit. But welcome out to the show, Jack. We’re happy to have you.
Jack McNamara (00:29.624)
Thanks for having me, Tyler. Super excited to be here. Let’s go.
Tyler Jorgenson (00:32.186)
Yeah, let’s do it. Jack, you’ve got, you know, you’ve got a story and we’re going to get through it today. But when was that first moment in your life that you realized you were an entrepreneur?
Jack McNamara (00:44.014)
Oh, geez. Well, I grew up as a Lego kid, so I always liked building and creating things. And then I obviously kind of dove into the world of sports, but I don’t know, sitting in a high school classroom, a college classroom, I always wanted to just kind of walk out and start my own thing and just begin ASAP. I don’t know, sports got in the way and I got to live that life and now I’m living the entrepreneurial life.
Tyler Jorgenson (01:07.258)
I actually see a strong crossover between people who are into sports that are entrepreneurs. And I think it’s a little bit of they know that effort in can be results out instead of just punching a clock. There’s this weird difference between how much impact one person can create. But you did team sports, right? Hockey was your jam.
Jack McNamara (01:28.75)
Yeah, so I grew up in just outside of Boston across the street from Boston College. My dad played in the American hockey, the step below the NHL. My mom was a tennis player, three brothers, we all played college hockey. So yeah, we grew up battling on the tennis courts and the hockey rink on the football field, wherever we could kind of get our competitiveness going. And yeah, then we all went and played college hockey and then to the pros, but we’re all letdowns. We never made it to the NHL.
Tyler Jorgenson (01:56.774)
Look, if you laced up right now, which brother would be the best? Okay, then you win. Then you win. All that matters is winning at home, right?
Jack McNamara (02:01.87)
No, just, no, I’m kidding. No, they’re gonna beat me up for that because I’m the smallest. The older brother was pretty legit, but we all battled, depend on the day.
Tyler Jorgenson (02:14.758)
Yeah, awesome. That’s really cool. I think the, the, also hit that the Lego kid, the ability to create, right? To have something in your mind and then create it. And I feel like Legos when we were younger in the eighties and early nineties were a lot more just build whatever you can think of. And I feel like it’s all kits today. Right. And I know we had kits back then. I just never could afford them, I guess, but, I love that idea of just creating something that’s in your mind. So what, what led you to create this? Why did you decide to go with true?
Jack McNamara (02:45.486)
Yeah, so I mean, obviously I then went and played pro ice hockey in Europe and it wasn’t until I was sitting in a locker room and some somewhere in Norway that I was like, geez, every locker room I’ve been in from the age of five to 25 has been artificial sports drinks, sugary energy drinks, crazy supplements. And I’m like, why are we training three times a day and putting garbage in our bodies? And, that’s when I was like, well, screw it. I’m just going to try to create something better. And obviously I had no background in beverage, but
My dad always used to say, was like, how long did it take you to be a great hockey player? I like, I don’t know, 20 years. He’s like, well, regardless of the avenue you choose next in business, you should respect the game and know that it’s going to take you a while to become great at it. I was like, yeah, I don’t know anything about beverage, but it’s something that allows me to do something in sports, nutrition and health, creating a physical product that I can hold and drink. So it was kind of then when I was like, hey, let’s just do this. Let’s see how far we can take it.
Tyler Jorgenson (03:45.926)
So I love it. You decide to go into performance beverages, right? There’s only, there’s a few players in the market, but you’re like, I’m going to do it. I’m going to do something great. What has been the biggest curve ball that’s hit you or, know, I don’t know what the right term is in hockey. What’s a rogue puck coming at you called?
Jack McNamara (04:02.894)
Definitely had some rogue pucks hit me.
Tyler Jorgenson (04:05.975)
Yeah. Yeah. So what’s been the biggest one of those?
Jack McNamara (04:10.126)
So I’d say in 2015, you don’t know. So like literally we were building an airplane that was already in flight and that’s been the case for the past decade. So there’s a lot of curve balls that we’ve received. One being like, hey, most beverage companies fail. I think there’s a 99 % failure rate and I’d say a fraction of a fraction or percent ever get to a million, let alone 10 million. And then the exits are like…
I don’t know, you see them and they’re not typically like $10 million exits. It’s either you’re the MVP in the NHL selling for a billion dollars or you bust. And that was kind of a shocking realization for me, but it also makes it more fun. It’s like, why get into something that’s easy? Like the more people said, like, don’t do this, the more I was like, well, if he can do it, I can do it. And I don’t know, I’m super naive. So I’d say that was one and two is the amount of capital it takes to get there. I was naive in how hard it is to raise money.
And it’s the typical route is like, all your own money to the ground. And then, then you have to start raising from friends and family and then angel investors and VCs. then, so it’s, it’s a highly stressful space, but Hey, that’s nothing’s easy. I don’t care what job you choose to be, to be the best at it. is incredibly hard.
Tyler Jorgenson (05:28.166)
When was the moment where you were building and you were working on the product and you finally had that first win, no matter how small, where you realized maybe we’re onto something?
Jack McNamara (05:39.64)
I would say the first manufacturing run. Like we participate in a couple of accelerator programs in New York, sleeping on couches, surfing at friends’ couches, like anywhere I could find some money, whether it’s just working an odd job here and there. And then we did a Kickstarter campaign, Indiegogo campaign, did a small friends and family round. And it wasn’t until we actually manufactured that first product, which was like a healthy energy shot. And I saw it coming down the line, tried it, and I was like,
Hey, we’re almost there. That being said, I was naive again. I was like, this product is going to make it and we’ve made a hundred pivots since. But I’d say most entrepreneurs would agree that seeing that first product come off the line is pretty special.
Tyler Jorgenson (06:23.002)
Yeah, for sure. There is actually like psychology that supports that being naive and slightly delusional is is directly correlated to success. Right. So where have some times where you’ve you’ve really leveraged that?
Jack McNamara (06:39.406)
Every day.
Tyler Jorgenson (06:40.53)
Well, you can’t stay naive forever, right? You’ve learned things since you’ve started where now you know how hard it is to raise cash. Now, you know, you know, doing the cost of a manufacturing run. But like, what are some of those times where you just man, I had no idea what was happening, but I did it anyway.
Jack McNamara (06:58.03)
I mean, it’s the same thing with sports. It’s like when you’re a little five-year-old and you’re going into first grade, second grade class and tell the teacher, I’m playing the NHL, they’re like, choose something else. it’s same thing with starting a beverage company. It’s like, you can’t go into it thinking I’m going to run a lemonade stand. That’s going to be famous on the corner and make $10. Like when we went into this space, it was to become the next vitamin water or the next big player. So
I would say that level of delusional gives you the confidence to wake up every morning and compete with these guys. So I stand by my answer. Like you need to be delusional every day to think that you can compete with Pepsi, Coca-Cola, Red Bull, Dr. Pepper, Keurig. Our team is six full time right now. Like Red Bull probably has six guys in like one county in Massachusetts. So.
I would say that’s the biggest thing is trying to think smarter and more efficiently, leverage technology, leverage the new social media platforms and do it before anyone else. Because that’s the only way you’re going to win is thinking differently. And yeah, we do that every day.
Tyler Jorgenson (08:13.638)
Very cool. When you had that moment where the product came off the manufacturing line, what was the first outside signal that things were working? Maybe it was a big purchase order or an investor really seeing that they believed in you.
Jack McNamara (08:29.848)
It was a local retailer called Market Basket. Market Basket, for those who are from Massachusetts, it is just like an unbelievable retailer. They’ve been around for a while. They’re very traditional. They’re very loyal. And I got an introduction through one of our investors to the buyer at Market Basket, and they gave us a shot. And I mean, one good learning here is like I always said, did what I said I was going to do.
And despite me thinking this was going to be a huge success, it actually failed. And we got kicked out of market basket. Guess who was the first retailer to give us a chance when we launched the cans? It was market basket. And most, most retailers like in the door, out the door, good luck getting back in for 10 years. But my one advice to any entrepreneur is like, be honest with yourself, be honest with your buyers, do what you say you’re going to do. And they’re going to give you another chance because guess what? They appreciate the struggle and they appreciate that you’re putting everything against it.
Tyler Jorgenson (09:00.839)
Hmm.
Tyler Jorgenson (09:13.999)
Right.
Jack McNamara (09:26.892)
It’s the entrepreneurs that throw pasta against the wall, hope it sticks, never talk to their buyer that they’re not going to get another chance because for lack of better words, they weren’t as honest with their intentions. I,
Tyler Jorgenson (09:36.634)
Yeah. they didn’t, didn’t, yeah, building a relationship means being, having good conversations in the hard times too, right? So not just running away from them.
Jack McNamara (09:43.79)
And that’s the same for fundraising. It’s like, hey, everything’s not always going to be rosy, but if you don’t, if you’re not forthcoming with your data and you’re not forthcoming with your struggles, like who’s going to help you? It’s like, Hey, it’s easy to help a brand when they’re, when they’re doing great, but our investor base has been super helpful for that reason.
Tyler Jorgenson (09:59.772)
Yep.
Tyler Jorgenson (10:03.142)
That’s awesome. How important has it been for you in working through this as an entrepreneur and having a wife who’s also an entrepreneur? that help or make it harder?
Jack McNamara (10:14.958)
so much easier. I am incredibly grateful to my wife, Jen, who started the clothing brand 1987 that I’m currently wearing, Luxury Loungewear Company. And ironically, we’re building it very differently. Like I’m building this VC funded beverage machine, whereas she’s self-funding this clothing brand that’s been incredibly successful. Like I’m going after mass retailers, she’s doing short runs, limited edition, yet
At the end the day, business is the same. Like you spend money on a product and then you sell it for more. And then hopefully you’re making money at the end of the day. So every dinner we get together and we talk about our learnings, our struggles, our wins. And it’s so fun. Like starting a company is so lonely. And it wasn’t until I met my wife that it became a team effort, so to speak.
Tyler Jorgenson (10:58.278)
That’s cool.
Tyler Jorgenson (11:06.106)
Yeah, man, it’s really nice to have someone joining you in that, where you can be lonely together.
Jack McNamara (11:11.758)
Exactly. do have a co-founder who’s amazing too, but I will say this, it’s nice to go home and be able to chat about it.
Tyler Jorgenson (11:15.611)
Yeah.
Tyler Jorgenson (11:19.91)
For sure. What are some of you guys’ big goals? then after, I want to pivot away after that question and talk a little bit about just more of your come up a little bit. But what are some of the big goals coming here in the next couple of years for True?
Jack McNamara (11:35.106)
Well, ever since we started the brand, we’ve grown, but we’ve never hit that hockey stick curve, so to speak. It’s just been like 70 to a hundred percent growth year over year, just continuing to get one percent better every year. So I’m a firm believer that if you do that, maybe it’s going to take you 10 years, maybe it’s going to take you 20 years, but eventually you’re going to find a way to do it. As long as you’re not making the same mistake twice, continuing to grow relationships and continue to improve on your product.
And then looking back at the past 10 years, I wish we were a billion dollar brand, but we took the journey we took and I’m very proud of that. So I’d say moving forward, don’t change that philosophy. We just continue to improve product, improve distribution, improve relationships. And then who knows, maybe in the next year, next five years, 10 years, we catch lightning in a bottle and it’s a different story. But I don’t think the philosophy changes, just the learnings do.
Tyler Jorgenson (12:33.018)
Is there one athlete, influencer or celebrity that you would just love for them to like sponsor, endorse the product?
Jack McNamara (12:45.038)
I mean, if Taylor Swift listening, I think she moves economies. I think she could probably do the same thing with beverages. So I think my wife would love that too. So we could do a dual partnership with Taylor Swift. I think that would send us to the stratosphere.
Tyler Jorgenson (12:58.358)
I don’t, yeah, your manufacturing supply might struggle a little bit, but for sure. Yeah, for sure. I have to admit, I thought you were gonna pull somebody out of Boston or someone like that, but all right, Taylor, if you’re listening, make sure to call Jack. I’d love it, So let’s talk a little bit about the come up, right? So you were playing professional hockey and.
Jack McNamara (13:04.769)
Good problem to have.
Tyler Jorgenson (13:26.374)
But you start to make this shift. You mentioned while we were getting ready, there were some times where things weren’t super easy. Talk to us about some of those early challenges.
Jack McNamara (13:36.398)
I so I hung up the skates, always wanted to start this brand, but I jumped into software sales and I was dying inside. And I know some people kill it, but it just wasn’t something I was passionate about. So I basically went to my mom and I was like, hey, I want to really start this business. She supported that. I applied to a thousand accelerators, got into two, immediately moved to Manhattan, was sleeping on a couch in New York.
Then I moved from Harlem to Bushwick to like, was all over the place in New York. I was working at Equinox in the front desk, making enough money to basically build a shower there and work out. And then that journey kind of came to an end. I had to come home. I’m living with my parents. And then from there, I met a mentor of mine who happened to own a big warehouse with a gym inside. And he was like, Hey, just come stay with me. I’m like, what are you talking about? He shows me this little 200 square foot room, no bathroom. Like my bathroom was.
the same bathroom as everyone else at the gym. My window did not look into the outside world. It looked at a squat rack. the first month was like incredibly challenging. I’m like, what the heck am I doing? Like I have friends working on Wall Street, like doing X, Y, Z and here I am living in the gym. It’s like a step backwards. But it wasn’t until I was like, you know what? This is pretty cool. I get to like live around like-minded people, work out every day. And it started to become fun. It was like a transition of
Tyler Jorgenson (14:45.319)
Yep.
Tyler Jorgenson (14:55.025)
Mm-hmm.
Jack McNamara (15:00.108)
of my perspective and I ended up staying there for five years and I didn’t get paid for the first three years and I just kept chipping away and enjoying the journey and eventually I met my wife and that was the transition out of the gym. So that was a beautiful transition but.
Tyler Jorgenson (15:15.43)
Yeah. Was she squatting from, and you saw her squatting right outside your window?
Jack McNamara (15:20.59)
No, I actually was introduced to my wife through another entrepreneur and yeah, the rest is history. I moved down to the gym and we’ve just been growing our businesses in parallel. It’s been a lot of fun.
Tyler Jorgenson (15:33.414)
That’s super awesome, As you guys are building and doing just really cool stuff, I’m a big believer that life is not just about the businesses you build, but about the life you’re building. What’s something that you’re really excited about? And what’s one item on your personal bucket list you’re gonna accomplish in the next 12 months?
Jack McNamara (15:55.854)
I don’t know if it’s something that I would accomplish outside of business, but I’m very passionate about training and continuing to follow a routine. So I wake up every morning at five, 5.30 AM, hang out with my dog for a little bit, and then go to the gym and work out and try to have a balanced lifestyle between work and fitness and having fun with my wife when we can. And that’s pretty much it. I have a very, very focused.
mindset when it comes to building this business. I feel like, yes, it would be nice to have more free time to hang out with my wife and my family, but I owe it to our investors. Like anyone who’s going to put a dollar and bet on me, like I’m going to throw myself through a wall to make that happen. So yeah, I can’t say I have any other focus other than like trying to stay in relatively good shape and build this thing.
Tyler Jorgenson (16:48.71)
Gotcha. What is one thing, you guys have a lot of new products and things coming up at True. What’s something coming down the pipe that you’re really excited about?
Jack McNamara (16:57.046)
I’m really excited about one of our product extensions on the cans, which is our true gut formula and has both probiotics and prebiotics in it. So a nice balanced approach to gut health. And it tastes delicious. It tastes like peach rings. And then the other thing we realized is like cans are really expensive to ship. So we’re building this out more on the retail side, but online hydration like liquid IV and waterboy and all these other brands scratch.
The list goes on element. was like, why can’t we do this with our functional products too, with energy, focus, dream for sleep, for gut health. So we have a bunch of functional wellness powders that we’re launching next week. And I’m really excited about those. So everything was designed to perfection based on what we’ve learned in the past, which like, dimensions are right. The weight’s right. The taste is right. And the functionality is right.
Tyler Jorgenson (17:50.754)
Awesome. Yeah, I think you’ve got some really cool products. Now, how do you balance when you’re launching a new product and you know, there’s already competition in the space. Like, do you worry about that or do you try to set it apart or do you just say, hey, we’re going to sell a similar product but to a different market or a different piece? What’s your approach there?
Jack McNamara (18:09.484)
My approach initially, I think was totally wrong. So when we launched our first energy shot, we tried to innovate on every single aspect of the product. And it was like a unique package design. Customers didn’t know if it was a liquid, a powder, a tablet, unique demo, unique demographic, like targeting elite athletes when reality energy shots are a different demographic. Trying to go omnichannel retail and all this. For our powders, we were like, okay, let’s simplify.
We don’t need to do anything different than Liquid IV. The product tastes great. They have good nutrients. They have a good demographic. Let’s just literally change the functionality. Liquid IV doesn’t have a gut health product. We do. They don’t have like, I think they might’ve recently gotten into sleep, but we do. it was a…
Tyler Jorgenson (18:47.653)
okay.
Got it.
Tyler Jorgenson (18:55.488)
So really just focusing on the functionality. So saying like, that’s what’s different is we’re performance, not just hydration, you’re hydration plus.
Jack McNamara (19:03.406)
Yeah, I mean, this is the advice I would give to any entrepreneur based on my learnings is you do not need to reinvent the wheel. You need to do everything at a comparable level except for that one thing that you’re going to stake a flag into the ground and say you’re better. Because you’re not even going to, like even when you go to a demo or sampling event, what are you going to go tell them like a hundred reasons why you’re better? You just have to tell them one convincing reason why you’re better and the product will then speak for itself.
Tyler Jorgenson (19:17.81)
Yeah.
Tyler Jorgenson (19:28.4)
You know, that’s, I hope that people heard that, that what you just shared, because so many people think that if you’re gonna reinventing the wheel means coming up with a completely different thing. It means, no, this wheel performs better in rain, or this wheel performs better in the snow, right? It’s one difference. They’re already sold on the first part. Don’t try to recreate it all. I love that. I think that’s a really, really sharp principle. How do you stay excited about the business?
you know, over time, right? Like, you eventually it’s not just a startup anymore. You guys are growing and building. How do you stay excited about what you guys are doing?
Jack McNamara (20:07.118)
I mean, I’d say the biggest thing is like people look at selling a beverage company as owning a lemonade stand. It like seems so simple. It is the hardest thing I’ve ever done, bar none. And the reason for it is to win in beverage, have to be unbelievable at distribution. You have to be unbelievable at manufacturing because getting economies of scale in this space is like close to impossible. Thankfully, we have an amazing partner with Polar Beverages.
who is an investor, distributor, manufacturer for us. You have to be unbelievable with managing finance and trying to find profitability in a space that’s not typically profitable in the early stages. You have to be unbelievable at operations, fulfillment, logistics. And I’m saying like, Tyler, literally, if you’re not good at one of those things, you’re going to quietly burn money to the ground, which we’ve done in the past. So how do I stay interested in the space?
You just need to pick a new hat and you have a whole list of problems. And I love problem solving. So yeah, everything’s new. And I don’t think this space will ever get old. There’s always a new challenge that excites me every day.
Tyler Jorgenson (21:07.345)
Yeah.
Tyler Jorgenson (21:16.11)
What was one of the first things or just one of the biggest things where you just hit a complete challenge, hit a wall, made it at a big failure in the process and how’d you fix it and overcome it?
Jack McNamara (21:28.322)
I would say it happened a couple of times where we were against the ropes, likely to fail. One was right before COVID hit. We didn’t have any investors committed to our round. We literally were going to run out of money in a month. And we had this thing like on the horizon that did not look good. And thankfully I developed this relationship with a guy, Chris Jenney at Janice Innovation.
We started working together on our problem, on True’s problems, and we came to a really good solution, a really great plan. And quite frankly, they saved us. Like, Genes innovation was huge. And we just kept chugging along. And then the same thing happened recently. We ultimately really needed more investment to keep building on our great story, but the VC market had tightened aggressively in the past two years. And we went to Polar Beverages, who’s been our long
term partner, unbelievable guys. I think it’s like a third or fourth generation business, powerhouse in New England. I went to their president. I was just like, hey, Ralph, we could really use your help here and explain to him what we’re doing well, what we weren’t. And he came with an unbelievable solution and quite frankly, stuck a flag in the ground saying they’d support us. And then we ended up raising from 60 investors. So I’d say Janus Innovation and Polar have saved us and I will
Tyler Jorgenson (22:52.442)
Awesome.
Jack McNamara (22:57.228)
always be incredibly grateful for those guys.
Tyler Jorgenson (23:00.58)
It sounds a lot of what you talk about is how relationships have been a huge part of this, right? By really leaning into the relationships of these investors and retailers and things like that. It’s really been a powerful part of your story. What’s your advice to people that are maybe further behind and just getting started in terms of building those relationships?
Jack McNamara (23:26.062)
Let’s say be authentic with your relationships. I think there’s a lot of people out there that are like, gimme, gimme, gimme. And maybe to a degree, I’m that guy too, but I try to be very genuine with my approach. And when I say, hey, like I owe you big time, let me know if I can ever help you. Like I mean it. So there are a few people that have supported me along the way. They said, hey, like I’m moving my house tomorrow. Like, can you come over and help? Like I probably have a list of 500 people that I would drop things and do that for tomorrow.
So think it takes a village to raise an entrepreneur. And I, be honest with you, I’ve never really, I don’t want to use the word lied, but never fudged things. Like, it’s just like, Hey, this is the valuation we believe that we can exceed next year. I don’t think it’s too much. I don’t think it’s too little. Like that’s, that’s what I feel about it. And I think there’s a high level of trust between retail partners and founders and investors and founders.
Tyler Jorgenson (24:02.45)
Hmm
Tyler Jorgenson (24:17.65)
Yeah.
Jack McNamara (24:25.314)
And honestly, a lot of them have been burned and I recognize that. So I guess my philosophy has always been, I’d rather have a tiny piece of a big pie and be able to tell all my relationships at the end of the day, whether this thing’s the next Celsius or not, that I gave it my all and I was very honest in the approach and I was an authentic guy because my relationships are everything.
Tyler Jorgenson (24:48.784)
That’s huge. you know, let’s, we’re living in our delusion for a little bit, right? Taylor Swift has signed on. She’s pumping you guys up. what’s a dream retail partner that you’re really shooting for in this next little while.
Jack McNamara (25:03.786)
geez. So it’s actually pretty fun right now. We’re talking to a lot of them. So we have a license to hunt with Walmart, with Target, which means we can sell into each individual store. We’re not planogrammed in. We just finished a four-day road show with Costco. launching Kroger. We just launched Kroger into two regions. We’re just part of brands with Heart, with 7-Eleven.
So we’re talking to most of them. I would say Target would be a really cool one to launch nationally with. to be honest with you, when you partner with a Taylor Swift or something like that, you’d be right to rock on all of them because you can’t leave any stone unturned.
Tyler Jorgenson (25:41.434)
Yeah. No, that’s for sure. Well, that’s cool. Talk to us a little bit about that license to hunt. think that’s probably something people haven’t heard about. you know, a lot of people are trying to sign one of those big agreements with Costco or someone like that, but they’re thinking they’re getting either a regional or a complete play. What is license to?
Jack McNamara (26:01.034)
Yeah, so it’s an interesting concept. There’s really three ways to win in retail. Well, I should say three phases. If you get a Taylor Swift, oftentimes they want to go national immediately and take full advantage of that press. But a smaller brand, it’s like, if you get a chance, it’s largely a licensed hunt. And all that means is Target has given you a vendor number. And now your team or your distributor can go into each individual Target and sell it in.
But you’re not selling prime time space. You’re targeting flex space like a random fridge, which would be great, or a off shelf display. But the problem with that is even if you crush it, you got to go back in and throw in another display. And oftentimes it’s really challenging to manage. And from a distributor standpoint, they want to push the products that are planogrammed in because those are money makers versus trying to win these incremental space, which is why.
you ultimately have to really leverage your team aggressively. The second phase is regional and then you prove yourself there and then the final phase is national. You can skip steps, but if you’re not ready for it, you’ll ultimately burn a lot of money to the ground. So I’d say that’s the three ways.
Tyler Jorgenson (26:59.825)
Yep.
Tyler Jorgenson (27:10.106)
Yeah, I know a lot of people, a lot of people that have done that, right? They signed the big agreement a little bit too fast and, weren’t, and then didn’t sign smart agreements, right? They didn’t, they didn’t recognize, you know, some of these stores like Walmart has the ability that if they don’t sell, like you have to buy back or, so it’s put a couple of companies I know out of business by not really knowing the game. but it seems like you’ve got good advisors, good teams around you really coaching you through the process.
You know, we talked a little bit about, you know, what you want to do individually, right? Just stay fit and keep growing the business. What, just give me one other big thing for this year. Like with, you know, we got a, we’re still early in the year. There’s a lot of good stuff happening. You know, what does the end of this year look like to be a total win for you?
Jack McNamara (28:04.216)
Tough to say one thing, but I’d say if we grow 100%, that would be a huge win. But more than that, growing 100 % by really leaning into the fundamentals. And what I mean by that is like, I don’t think companies should anymore follow these big companies that have burned money to the ground to make it. I think there’s a new way and philosophy to win. And I want to do that with a lot of…
Tyler Jorgenson (28:11.218)
Okay.
Jack McNamara (28:33.038)
financial prudence, guess you could call it. So for us, I’d say a win is doubling in sales and doing it twice as efficiently as we did it last year. Little things, yeah. So fingers crossed.
Tyler Jorgenson (28:42.534)
Yeah, that’s huge. I like that. Yeah. Awesome, Jack. Thanks so much for coming out on the show and sharing your story about True and what you guys are doing. Go check it out at drinktrue.com. It’s T-R-U and you’ll be able to see where they got a store locator there, which is cool. Or you can just order it online, but check it out, support them. See what you can do. To all my business, just wherever you’re listening, watching or tuning in, it’s your turn to go out and do something.
